| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| B112 |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 16:36:22
This post will outline the steps I am taking for maintaining and rebuilding the engine of a 1999 Formula 271 Fastech with the Mercury 502 Mercruiser engine. At the bottom of the post are a few videos of my last runs of the 2007 year. I'll be keeping this post up-to-date with the latest progress on maintaining this boat. Scroll down for some interesting Dyno Test results.
Currently, engine is under it's second rebuild from being a "New Remanufactured Long Block" from Mercury Racing in 2002. On initial purchase of the boat the top speeds recorded were 61mph on the GPS in slack currents of the Connecticut River. The first rebuild of this engine was performed by Housatonic Marina. The boat performance since that rebuild has not been satisfactory. After the first rebuild, the best top speed recorded was 59mph. Boat reports show a 66mph average with peaks to 70mph with the same stock engine. The outdrive on this 271 is a 1.65 with a 26" pitch prop.
Performance, Operating and Engine Work History
2003
Boat Sea Trial by Sea Safe Marine Surveys on 6/24/03. Boat performance around 61mph on GPS. 267.3 hours on boat.
I've been going to the boat show for about eight years before buying this boat, took a performance boating course with the 38' Scarab and started shopping for this boat in June of 2003. Below is a matrix I developed to make my choice between three boats. This boat was choosen due to the Remanufactured Long Block from Mercury Marine:
Boat purchased Aug 2003 from Ocean Performance with a "all new long block" installed in Aug 2002. Receipts showing installation closed out on Aug 16, 2002. The engine is documented with Mercury Marine as a Mercruiser customer satisfaction replacement engine with warranty services on 11/15/99 and 12/01/01 for various problems along with Water Injestion. These problems were found by calling Mercury with the engine serial number, unfortunately after the purchase and after problems started occuring.
There was a Quick Silver Repower plate on the engine:
(It was removed in the 2005 Rebuild)
Closed 2003 with 290 hours on the boat. (used 23 hours)
2004
Spring commission by Ocean Performance on 5/28/04 (Boat winterized by Ocean Performance 11/06/03). At this time, Ocean Performance diagnosed an oil leak as "REAR MAIN SEAL N/G". Further, OP diagnosed that the heads needed to be reworked.* The heads were then rebuilt by Eriksson Industries replacing four valves, 3 guides and 13 springs.
The following compression readings were made:
170 - 160
150 - 170
90 - 150
150 - 170
#5 Cylinder 95% Leak Down - NG
*Why didn't OP report a leak down test on all cylinders at that time? Would we have realized the oil leak was a leak down problem then?
Closed 2004 with 311.9 hours on boat. (used 22 hours)
2005
Boat winterized by Housatonic Marina fall of 2004 understanding they will be pulling the engine for replacing the rear main seal. In spring of 2005, rear main seal diagnosed as engine needing a rebuild, "bigger problems". The first rebuild of this engine was performed in Aug 2005 by mechanics at Housatonic Marina and Center Auto as the engine rebuild shop in Stratford CT. The assembly of the engine looked like this prior to reinstalling in the boat:
Right after installation, this is a video of the engine running:
(Mechanic Rob at Housatonic Marina)
Test run #1: Housatonic Marina returned the boat as complete soon after the video above, but on the first test run, the engine would sputter and stall before even leaving the dock. Housatonic Marina took the boat back to the shop to diagnosing this problem as a fuel supply problem.
Test run #2: Housatonic Marina went through all fuel supply systems and sent mechanics out on the water to test run the boat. The boat again failed to operate under load.
Test run #3: the original coupler blew out and this was later replaced by Housatonic Marina with the owner blaming the mechanic for not changing out the coupler nor inspecting the coupler for the potential need of a new coupler. Did they know how to align and properly use an engine alignment tool?
Later, water was discovered in the oil and Center Auo came on site to reseal the intake manifold to resolve water found in the oil. Housatonic Marina pumped out and replaced the oil three times. Here's a sample of what was found in October 2005:
Housatonic Marina spent much of 2005 trying to diagnose a "Fuel Supply" problem.
Note: The following link describes attempts to get suggestions on another forum. This describes this problem ending in 2005 as the "Train Wreck":
http://www.goboatingamerica.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002595#000007
Note that the box of parts after the head build was later proven to be all the parts.
Closed 2005 with only test runs on boat. (used low hours)
2006
In Spring of 2006, Housatonic Marina commissioned the boat and the fuel supply problem seemed to be solved, though the oil leak was still present.
Closed 2006 with 340 hours (estimated, used 28 hours for six runs between Branford and Stamford CT)
2007
Spring of 2007 commissioned the boat to find intermittent problem which seemed like the same "fuel supply" problem which Housatonic Marina diagnosed. Boat taken to Port Milford to find no problems with fuel system. Luckly, during a trial run with Port Milford an electrical problem on the distributor was found and that electrical harness was replaced. The remainder of 2007 season the boat operated flawlessly, with the problem of the oil leak still present and performance still unsatisfactory. Butch at Port Milford advised the problem was no question coming from the rear of the engine.
The second/third to last run of the season started showing a header exhaust leak. New JEGS stainless steel header bolts were purchased to see if retorqing the header bolts would resolve this problem. Only 14 out of 16 bolts were able to be removed because Houstonic Marina reused old steel header bolts which two were unable to be removed. Later these were extracted by Center Auto during a warrentee inspection of the oil leak problem.
The engine was pulled by Butch at Port Milford and delivered to Center Auto for pressure testing the block for oil leaks. At this point Center Auto was unable to diagnose why an oil leak existed. At this point engine rebuilders were switched to Don Cinto Automotive to perform a Dyno Test.
Below is a video of a 1999 Mercruiser 502 EFI Gen VI engine being setup for a dyno test. We're trying to analyze why this engine has a chronic Oil leak. There was no sign of an oil leak while this engine was idling without the water break/load on the engine. We're using a see through flywheel so we can see the rear main seal while the engine is running.
(12/15/07)
This is a video of that engine being actually run on the dyno test rig under load. This time we have the water brake installed and the flywheel is a normal flywheel, so we can't see the rear main seal.
(You are seeing this video through a protective glass window and the engine is in a cinder block room.)
What we found the leak down test was showing buildup of pressure in the engine. Compression test read 125 lbs on cylinders 1,7,8 and the leakdown test indicated a loss of 9%, 20% and 35%, respectifully on these cylinders. A normal leakdown test should be about 4%. The engine is running well, but with the built up pressure, that would cause the oil leak problem under load.
HP - Torque Curve (RPM verses CBT Lb-Ft & CBHP)
4800 RPM CBT Lb-Ft 452.5 CBHP 413.6 FHP 71.2
Super Flow SF-901 dynamometer Panel:
Note, that during the dyno testing noises were heard in the engine which did not sound good (I suspect a balance issue on the previous rebuild).
Closed 2007 with around 383 hours (estimated, used 43 hours).
2008
Start of the rebuild:
Block ready for pistons:
The block was bore then honed to remove a large rust spot in one of either cylinders #7 or #8 (one of the back cylinders, closest to the transom).
Bottom of Block
Block waiting on some larger new pistons
Right side of Block
Notice that the 502 Gen VI block has an 8.2 stamped in the block.
Here are some additional photographs of the block in progress:
blockcylinders
blockintake
Next the Heads:
Head with a performance trick
The Exhaust valves were replaced with Stainless steel valves. Notice that some of the metal on the inside of the head was removed by both the intake and exhaust valves. This is a trick which generates more horse power. Also note that a 30 degree valve "Back Cut" was applied. This is a performance head rebuilt trick, described in the following article:
Angling For Power - For A Good Valve Job, It’s All A Matter Of Degrees
Here are some additional photographs of the head work in progress:
headsprings
headvalves
headexhaustports
Next each of the Pistons and Rods (end by end) are weighed to get the bobweight. Since the crank is externally balanced, the harmonic damper and flexplate/flyweel are mounted on the crank to perform a spin-balance. Both the flywheel and Harmonic balancer must be used on this engine to insure proper balance of the crank.
The pistons are Flat Top pistons in this engine. This is one of the pistons which will be replaced with the new bore:
Header Setup Inside of the Boat:
Below are photographs of the CMI Headers and tail pipes along with photographs showing the "Silent Thunder" box was removed from the 271. (Removing that eliminated at least 80-100lbs of weight from the boat.) Custom Marine Inc. has been contacted to confirm if the installation of these headers meet the engineering specifications. Formula has confirmed that the thru transome exhaust holes are 13-3/4" from the engine centerline which meets the CMI Engineering specifications for the Elbow Top Headers shown below. We're currently waiting on CMI to pressure test and inspect these headers to see if these are causing a Water Reversion problem.
CMI Headers by Custom Marine http://www.custommarine.com
Transom view of Exhaust Tips
Click on these references for some additional tasks in the project:
MEFI Testing
Engine Painting
Transom Assembly Replacement & K-Plane Installation
(pending) San Juan Fresh Water Cooling System
Demonstration Runs:
Run at the mouth of the Housatonic River (Sep 2007):
Running by Faukner Island, Long Island Sound CT. (Sep 2007):
Some research sites:
This link has some references of top speed for the 1997 Formula 271:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-25632.html
(Note that comment that it takes thousands of dollars for a difference of 3-4 mph)
DYNOmite site:
http://www.land-and-sea.com/corporate/corporate.htm
Customer Test Results:
http://www.land-and-sea.com/marine/stern-jack/stern-jack_results.htm
Big Block on dyno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf-yUV1c-zE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvrLXrxRWg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0txgqVuoBY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnOW0lb3IDQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWYh5IcukcE&feature=related
(hum... camaro)
Dyno test results:
http://www.speedwake.com/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27382
Out of boat tests of 502 EFI Engines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnjXb4SZa90&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_XljiGzK1o&NR=1
Performance Tricks on Rebuild assembly:
http://www.cehighperformance.com/new_page_1.htm
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com
http://www.amfoffshoreracing.com/amfteam/teague/teague.html
Theoretical Speed (T.S.) Formula:
T.S. = Engine RPM / Gear Ratio * Prop Size / 1056
Example:
T.S. = (5500 RPM / 1.36) x (34"/1056) = 130.2 MPH
High performance boats average an efficiency loss between 10-20% due to hull drag and propeller loss.
130.2 MPH T.S. would translate = 104.16 - 117.2 MPH
Marine Doctor: (nice site)
http://www.marinemechanic.com/site/page130.html
Design Notes about the 271:
The 1999 271 with the 502 engine had a 3" riser kit on the manifolds along with the Silent Thunder to reduce the possiblity of water injestion. The 271 with the new technology 496HO now has a 2" riser on the manifolds.
BAM Speed Estimations:
http://www.go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm
Brokered boat listing 50mph cruise and 63mph top speed for a 271.
http://www.yachtbroker.com/powerboats/2005/27'-ft/formula/271-fastech/performance/-/-/840566.htm
Foamed in Gas Tank Holds Water
Research on removing and reinstalling gas tank foamed in:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005172.html
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/52895-re-installing-fuel-tank-what-foam-should-i-use.html
google: "gas tank foam formula"
http://raffinaderiet.com/Formula/html/removing_foam.html
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| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| B112 |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 21:00:06
Wes- The engine runs rich as is with the computer. If anything, I think the damage occurs from the steam which is generated in the exhaust (my theroy). When I finally get the engine in, I'm going to be monitoring the cylinders and Air/Fuel mixture closely. I bought an extra set of header gaskets on the start and I have an O2 sensor setup. With my current finances (new kid on the way), I'll be taking everything SLOW as I will not have the money to do any further repairs. The boat is actually paid for, just need to finish the assembly! |
| acb10_64 |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 20:23:27
Michael, are you able to use fuel without ethanol? I was talking to a guy at work today and he said the ethanol is a terrible problem with the boats, but you could get fuel without ethanol at marinas but its more $$$. |
| B112 |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 19:50:42
Leory, I'll need to update the log on what I accomplished this year, it's sad that I didn't get it in the water after 100 hours of working on it. About 60 of them in four weekends before vacation. I am pressed to even start working on it for two more weeks! |
| Leroy |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 19:12:41
Michael because of the rust spot on the cylinder wall May i suggest that rust may be due to porosity between the cylinder wall and the water jacket.
Die penetrant should be able to point it out.
|
| Leroy |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 18:49:41
You obviously love boating Michael.
I would like a cabin crusier for a lake. but i could not afford one. Surely there are deals out there but one needs to be diligent and have the capacity to haul one.
I was in a storm on Lake Michigan november 22 1972. 25 foot seas and gale force winds, on the retired Ore carrier the A.E.Nettlton that did not have it's own power.
We were being towed from Deluth Minnisota to Buffalo Ny with a load of wheat on.
The tug Olive L. Moore dropped the tow line because we were pulling it under water.
We rocked and rolled for 14 hours.
We knew we were going to die.
But we didn't.
I like to count my blessings. Imma stay off the big waters.
I have also been in a storm in the Atlantic Ocean but i was on an Aircraft carrier. Lake Michigan in November is one scary place. |
| Leroy |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 18:29:27
quote:
Originally posted by B112
Leroy, yes I've been patient, as my family, friends, have also. Let's just say I could own three of these boats in this economy today with what I spent. While I've struggled with this my buddy bought a sail boat on ebay for $6500 and is sailing it. My garage has been too full to work on a tractor! Now we have child on the way... I had to put down working on the boat for a month due to family obligations and a two week vacation to Italy (Venice, Florence, Sorento & Rome). Let's just say, I don't give up. Hopefully in the next two weeks we'll drop the engine in for an idle test and soon after a water test. Then back to tractors which are much more forgiving.
Congrats for on the way child Michael.
My wife would have nagged me so bad that partaking in the exercise to have a child would not have been in the picture.
Maybe once in 4 years is all it takes.;)
I do give up on stuff that plague me monetarily.
I bought a boat because a co worker was destitute and he needed 3 G's
It also had a mercury. And i did try to get the parts but i had choices for the same model and no one had the parts on hand and everyone wants a piece of that pie. 300.00 for a possibility that the part would work and the dealer would not return any special ordered item that didn't.
I won't do business with someone who is not clearly wanting my business.
no used parts were available. I sold the boat for 1,250.
Once i traded a gas powered push lawn mower for a car. It was a 1969 ford galaxy that would not keep a charge. On that car the battery was above the regulator and the battery acid leaked onto the regulator severing the leads.
I moved the regulator and that 429 started every time.
I traded that car for a 3/4 ton Royal Dodge Ram.
That truck was stuck in traffic with a head gasket foaming oil and water.
I told the nearly 7 foot tall Indian i would tow him out of the street.
He declined initially because he said a tow truck will come along.
I told him i have a car that runs we could maybe trade.
It worked.
So i had a 3/4 ton Pickup for a lawn mower. i replaced the head gasket, and the odometer because i couldn't gain title without doing so. After 300 miles it did it again.
I called the junk yard and asked them to give me a bid.
They said they will give me 800.00 and they will pick it up tomorrow.
I said if you give me 900.00 you can pick it up today.
They did.
One of those in a life time is good.
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| 1014211 |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 11:52:39
This is also why my best boat phrase is "never own your own boat, but make sure your best friend does".... :) |
| Richard L. |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 10:34:21
Mike, Famous words I've heard of boat ownership is that the 2 happiest days in a boat owners life is the day he buys a boat and the day he finally sells the boat.
Back in the 70's and early 80's I used to go to Stafford, Riverside Park and Thompson Speedways to see the modifieds run and saw spending like this for a 1 thousand dollar payout IF they won. 2nd and 3rd places were significantly reduced. At the time Ron Hutter race engines out in Ohio were the guys to go to to have your engine freshened at $10,000 per engine. So let's see, if you didn't blow your engine you were good to go all the way to Hutters in Ohio from Connecticut if you had the 30 grand. I remember this vividly as one of my friends, friend was a crew member for Reggie Ruggieros #44 and used to make that trip every Sunday night all summer to be back in time for Friday afternoon insallation of the new "freshened" engine for Friday night at Stafford. These guys were serious about this and replaced each engine every single night. Believe me there were quite a few that did this same thing every single week. Reggie, Greg Sacks, Richie Evans and numerous others did this every week. I think your best bet is to get ahold of their sponsor which was Danny's Market in New Haven and see if he's into boat racing now. Just a thought. |
| B112 |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 07:12:09
Leroy, yes I've been patient, as my family, friends, have also. Let's just say I could own three of these boats in this economy today with what I spent. While I've struggled with this my buddy bought a sail boat on ebay for $6500 and is sailing it. My garage has been too full to work on a tractor! Now we have child on the way... I had to put down working on the boat for a month due to family obligations and a two week vacation to Italy (Venice, Florence, Sorento & Rome). Let's just say, I don't give up. Hopefully in the next two weeks we'll drop the engine in for an idle test and soon after a water test. Then back to tractors which are much more forgiving. |
| Leroy |
Posted - 08/29/2010 : 20:20:14
From what i am reading, buying a boat with a "New Re-manufactured Long Block" from Mercury Racing that had 2 significant problems within 30 days could be a lemon.
You didn't share what this has cost you. I see it took 4 years after you bought it to get to a resolution We don't need to know how much, but it was a world of trouble for you. Just reading it takes the wind out of my sails.
I saw it as an investment in a hole in the water.
Mercury was the biggest name in boating the very best from my understanding.
Today if the engine has Honda or Toyota on it, I'm more trusting than any American Union made engine.
What a delema after delema. You have the patience of Jobe.
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