| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| B112 |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 12:17:58
Mercruiser MEFI-3 ECM Delphi 16237009
This topic is under development and really only scratching the tip of the iceberg. I'll be organizing this and helping you find everything about the MEFI-3 controller (will expand this as resources are available). The focus on this article is to organize everything you need to know about this EFI controller for the appropriate Marine engines. This article will need some reorganization to divide the ECU controllers between "Programable Controllers" and the old "EPROM Programmable Controllers"; the MEFI controllers are Programmable controllers which can be completely configured by the Serial port. Note, that programmable controllers are "Configured" and EPROM controllers may have both "Programming" and "Configuration". When I say configuration, you can change the various control tables. More on that later.
Please stop back soon.
Note: If you want to donate to this research please email me with how you can help. Here are a list of items I'm looking for or ways to help this research:
- Donate Engine wiring harnesses (MEFI1,2,3,4,5.. etc)
- Spare/Dead controllers (if you replaced your old MEFI3)
- Just plain donations, couple of bucks.
- Finally, for the first few contacts I'll be dumping and reloading MEFI3 controllers at $25/hour of my time. Email me for complete details, but you'll be responsible for any other costs (i.e. shipping plus insurance costs).
I am writing this article as I am working on disassembling and/or finding the formats which control the Mercruiser MEFI-3 ECM Delphi 16237009 used on the 1999 Mercruiser GM 502 Vortec Gen VI engine by Mercury.
(Note the J2 connector is on the left in this picture and the J1 is on the right.)
The MEFI-3 ECM can be referenced by the following Mercury Part Numbers:
861722R 2
861722T 2
895104A01
The part number "895104A01" was confirmed with Mercury Consumer Support on 1/21/08. They refered to this as a "conversion kit". I am currently researching which number above means what, though I believe that the "861722T 2" number is the original part and the other number with the "R" is a replacement number or reflashed number.
Here are pictures of the back of a Mercruiser MEFI-3 ECM:
(DELPHI 16237009 with barcode 867009KA00017257)
The side of this ECM has a F02D marked on it; this is the calibration checksum for this ECU in Hex. Further note that the 16237009 confirms this is a MEFI-3 ECM by the Rinda connections documents, tunertools.com and the OBD2AllInOne site. I've since found someone posting a picture of their ECM on the web and the barcode had the similar 867009KA characters, but the number at the end was different; my guess is that part is the Serial Number of that unit.
MEFI-3 ECM Connectors:
The front of the MEFI-3 ECM has two connectors, J-1 and J-2. These are 32 pin connectors of two rows of 16 pins; these have a slight offset between the top and bottom rows of 16 pins. (I am looking to get the connector type for this.)
The J1 Connector
J1-1 Injector Driver (cylinders 2,3,5,8)
J1-3 Ignition Control (Ref. Low)
J1-4 ECM Ground
J1-5 ECM Ground
J1-9 MIL Lamp (DLC pin E)
J1-10 Ignition Control Signal
J1-11 IAC "B" High (Idle Air Control)
J1-12 IAC "A" Low
J1-14 Knock Sensor Sign (only used on 7.4 MPI)
J1-17 Injector Driver (cylinders 1,4,6,7)
J1-20 ECM Ground
J1-23 Fuel Pump Relay Driver
J1-24 Ignition Control Bypass
J1-26 Audio Warning Horn
J1-27 IAC "B" Low (Idle Air Control)
J1-28 IAC "A" High
J1-30 Knock Sensor Signal
J1-32 Serial Data (DLC pin G)
The J2 Connector
J2-1 Battery
J2-3 TP and IAT Ground (Intake Air Temperature)
J2-4 TP 5V Reference (throttle position)
J2-7 Discrete Switch (oil pressure switch)
J2-8 Discrete Switch (transmission overtemp switch)
J2-10 Ignition Control Ref. High
J2-11 ECT Signal (Engine Coolant Temperature)
J2-18 MAP Ground (both MAP and ECT ground)
J2-19 MAP 5V Reference
J2-20 Discrete Switch Signal (neutral saftey/Load Anticipation)
J2-21 Master/Slave (DLC pin H)
J2-22 Diagnostic Test (DLC pin B)
J2-24 Discrete Switch (Gear lube bottle on L29 only)
J2-26 TP Signal (throttle position sensor)
J2-27 MAP Signal
J2-30 IAT Sensor (Intake aire temp)
J2-32 Ignition Fuse
Data Link Connector:
The Mercruiser wiring harness contains the "Data Link Connector". This is a 10 pin Delphi (Packard) "Metri-Pack" 150 series connector which connects to Diagnostic Test Tools.
The connector pins are as follows:
A - Ground
B - Diagnostic Enable
E - MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) status
F - Battery
G - Serial Data 8192 Baud
Metri-Pack150:
http://www.powerandsignal.com/docs/Catalog/met150.pdf
http://www.powerandsignal.com/IDC/default.aspx
(This vendor sold the connectors)
I've already purchased the AKM Cable from the Andrew at AKM Cables:
(AKMCable Male ALDL Female RS232 SN 4170)
http://www.akmcables.com/aldl.htm
andrew@akmcables.com
Note: That Andrew's cables are confirmed to work with the MEFI3 controllers. He publishes his design, but for the money, buy them.
Mercruiser EFI Wiring Diagram:
(click for larger image)
1= Fuel Pump
2= Distributor
3= Coil which sends two wires to the Distributor
4= Knock Sensor (KS) Module
5= Data Link Connector (DLC)
6= Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor
7= Idle Air Control (IAC)
8= Throttle Position (TP) sensor
9= Engine Coolant Tempurature (ECT)
10= Electronic Control Module (ECM)
11= Fuel Pump Relay
12= Ignition/System Relay
13= Fuses(15 Amp)Fuel Pump, (15Amp)ECM/DLC/Battery, (10Amp)ECM/Injector/Ignition/Knock Module
Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) Sensor
14= Harness Connector to Starting/Charging harness
15= Positive(+) Power Wire to Engine Circuit Breaker
16= Oil Pressure (Audio Warning System)
17= Load Anticipation Circuit (jumpered NC)
18= Gear Lube Bottle(Not used on inboard models)
Starting/Charging Harness:
A= Audio Warning Components
1= Wire not used on MCM (Blu/Tan)
B= Instrumentation Components
1= Oil Pressure Sender (to gauge) Lt Blu
2= Trim Sender (to gauge) Brn/Wht???
C= Charging and Starting
1= Alternator
2= Ground Stud
3= Starter
4= Circuit Breaker
5= Starter Slave Solenoid
6= Jumper Wire
7= 90amp fuse
a= positive wire
b= Harness Connector to EFI Harness
c= Auxiliary Tachometer Lead (grey)
Boat Wiring Harness:
Senders:
6= 806490T,49734 Water Temp
7= 815425T,37293T - Sender Assembly (Dual)
12= 805544T Sensor Assembly (Knock)
13= 805218T Temp
16= 805605A 1 Switch Assembly
http://www.psepmarineparts.biz/store/mercruiser_engine_senders.htm
Note: An inventory of all the connections on the harness and photographs of each part can be found on the page 1999 Mercruiser 502 EFI Engine Electrical Senders.
Differences between ECU Tuning Tool Vendors:
(This section will be a work in progress as I investigate the differences between what Tuning Tool vendors will offer. I will say that Ken of MEFI Burn was helpful in explaining his product.) I will compare and review the following vendors here:
1) Rinda
DIACOM Marine
- this can only scan the MEFI controllers. Calibration updates are only authorized for Dealers, but regular public can purchase this software. Rinda will supply sample CAL files, but the cable-software is locked from uploading the calibration files. The software can upload to a locked or unlocked controller.
2) OBD Diagnostics
a) MEFI Scan Kit (Diagnostics / Upgradeable)- 199.95
- comes with Scanner Pro and an ADX file.
- this can only scan the MEFI controllers and can not update them.
b) MEFI BURN Standard
- comes with Scanner Pro, Tuner Pro and the MEFI Burn Program
- Supplied with ADX & XDF files for all the controllers.
- this can update the MEFI controllers with limited parameters.
c) MEFI BURN Pro
- comes with Scanner Pro, Tuner Pro and the MEFI Burn Program
- Supplied with ADX & XDF files for all the controllers.
- this can update the MEFI controllers with "more" parameters.
Note: So far great support with this product!
3) ETS Data Master
- After reviewing a beta copy of this, I've found that the MEFI3 version is not functional at this time.
4) M.E.D.S. - Marine Engine Diagnostic Software
- Not heard much about this software yet
http://www.cdielectronics.com/Home/tabid/36/ctl/Details/mid/391/ItemID/4/language/en-US/Default.aspx
5) Ingenius Marine by Arizona Speed & Marine
http://www.azspeed-marine.com/inmaso.html
6) Ingenius by MSD
http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/software-ingenius.html
How to setup a test bed using your Engine's Harness:
This will describe what I did to setup my engine's harness. (This is also proves to me what I need to do to run my engine out of my boat and on a test rig.) The Mercruiser wiring harness has two halves to it; the EFI Harness and the Starter/Charging Harness. Both halves of the harnesses have various sensors, see above for those descriptions. Now one very important point which took me an hour of diagnosing was that both sides of the harnesses must be grounded because the grounds do not go through the connectors. So that will be very important to diagnose your engine not starting. When I initially set this up, I couldn't figure out why the grounds did not go through the harness and I was seeing 11 volts on both the pin 5 and pin 6 of the "9 pin Marine plug". After I grounded both sides, I discovered the relays in the harness were then engaging when I applied power. Further, the grounds were all the way to the ECM on pins 3&4 of the J1 connector and 12V was on pin 1 of the J2 connector. So that's my initial setup to test the ECM. After that I pluged the computer into the harness and ran two tests which the second test is recorded in the YouTube video shown below.
(Screen shot of the DataMaster-M3 Program)
References
According to the MEFIburn site, the MEFI controllers may need a password which Locks/Unlocks a proprietary burn. See this site:
http://autotelemetry.com/mefi/MEFIburn.asp
MEFI-Burn Review:
http://carols62.com/ramjet/
(Excellent reference)
Motorola Assembly Language:
http://www.osdata.com/topic/language/asm/asmintro.htm
A very interesting site:
http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html
Explaination of a Crate Engine ECM and what the Mercruiser ECM... it's more ruggedized:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/mercruiser-fi-street-engine-79366.html
ECM EPROM Crossreferences:
http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/p4xref.html
http://www.iroczone.com/techartpromid.htm
EFI ECU FAQ:
http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/EFI_ECU_FAQ
How to carefully handle the EPROM chips:
http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/ESD
Where to get EPROMS: (Cheap $3.99)
http://www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=27C256-90
A ECM Controller Website:
http://www.customefis.com/index.html
How to hack an ECM: This article explains that the GM ECM uses the Motorola CPU and normally has programmable EPROMS of types 27128, 27256 and 27512.
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/hacking.html
http://www.tunerpro.net/tutorials/CreatingECUs.htm
How to setup a test bench to work on an ECM:
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/projects/ecm_testbench/ecm_bench.txt
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/projects/ecm_testbench/
Where to get an eprom programming device:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/39446-list-everyones-prom-equipment.html
This is a PIC18F452 programmer:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/softelec/Projects/PIC18/SCHAER+/Projects_PIC18_Schaer_us.htm
Marine EFI Test Tools
This is the maker of the scantool connectors on the Mercruiser ECM:
http://www.powerandsignal.com/docs/Catalog/met150.pdf
Test tool Forum:
http://www.scantool.net/
http://tunertools.com/forums/
EFI Test tool
http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/toplevel.asp?cat=32
Compare features, price, & MEFI types covered:
Ingenius Pro - http://www.azspeed.com/inmaso.html
MSD Fuel Injection - http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/
UMI Racing - http://www.umiracing.com/gallery/Images/Catalog.pdf
Rinda Technologies - http://www.rinda.com/marine/marine.htm
Painless Wiring - http://www.painlessperformance.com/assets/07Catalog/
MEFI links:
Wiring Harnesses & MEFI's - http://www.mefistuff.com
GM MEFI - http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/
GM MEFI-4B - http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/
GM Technical Services - http://www.technicalservicesin.com/
TunerPro - http://www.tunerpro.net
ScannerPro - http://www.scannerpro.net
Others Experiences, Internet Forums:
Offshoreonly.com - http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/
Hotboat.com - http://www.hotboat.com/forums/
Speedwake.com - http://www.speedwake.com/
Iboats.com - http://forums.iboats.com/
Screamandfly.com - http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/
Boatered.com - http://www.boatered.com/forum/
Pressure testing:
Part Number: 91-881833A2
Description: GAUGE KT-PRESSURE (Mercury/Mercruiser)
Price: $ 341.62
Retail Price: $ 388.01
Weight: 12.0
http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/mercruiser_central.htm?source=google&group=mercruiser&gclid=CL-ridXX6I0CFUtyOAodGyT90w
Some vendors:
http://www.sterndrive.info/volvo_parts/id20.html
http://www.perfprotech.com/store/catalog/Part-Finder,3172.aspx?ref=googlemercruiserparts&gclid=CPfZ45rZ6I0CFQ2aOAodvCB8zg
http://www.boatfix.com/indexM.asp
http://www.masonmarine.net/index.php?cPath=23_25&aff=google
Other stuff:
http://www.intensemarine.com/
http://www.marinedepo.com/HPEngines.html
www.mercurymarine.com" target="_blank">http://www.querycat.com/site/www.mercurymarine.com
Bennet Trim tab indicator:
New Trim tab "Actuator Assembly" from west marine part A1101A $85
http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/btprice.htm
http://www.perfprotech.com/portal2/store/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1982
http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/page-2493.html
Make a tester:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2223575
Rinda Test tool writeup
http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/diag_tools.html
Articles in discussion areas:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?p=995432
http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/adventures/1277066.html
Boost Power:http://www.boostpower.com/
http://www.efiengines.com/
EFI Technology: - engine control and data systems
http://www.efitechnology.com/marine.html
http://www.msdignition.com/mari_7.htm
http://whiteracing.com/
***
http://www.customefis.com/links.html
Cables:
http://www.akmcables.com/ic.htm
http://www.mefiscan.com/sc/details.asp?item=mefiscan5
http://www.elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM327DS.pdf
http://tunertools.com/mefi/scan-and-tune.asp
http://www.speedwake.com/upload/showthread.php?s=f3a65980e4b51181e1d91c04404a1aa5&postid=752310#post752310
http://www.speedwake.com/upload/showthread.php?threadid=19404
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124305
http://carols62.com/ramjet/
http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10822
Sample scan tool purchases
Sample Scan Tool:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercruiser-Marine-Diagnostic-Scan-Tool-Rinda-Tool_W0QQitemZ170179959919QQihZ007QQcategoryZ43989QQcmdZViewItem
Sample TachometerVOM:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercury-Mercruiser-DMT2004-Tachometer-Kit-Fluke-VOM_W0QQitemZ170179956369QQihZ007QQcategoryZ43989QQcmdZViewItem
Sample EPROM Programmer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BP-MicroSystems-EP-1-EPROM-Programmer_W0QQitemZ170180082187QQihZ007QQcategoryZ43989QQcmdZViewItem
The MEFI controllers are made by Delphi, see this site and these documents:
http://delphi.com/
https://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_mpfi.pdf
https://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn/gas_multec_mpfi.pdf
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4895
EFI Message Boards:
1) http://www.ls1-australia.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=136
2) http://www.boatersed.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=109896
3) http://forum.efilive.com/
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/ic10318.htm
The Codes and 8192 Baud
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/us010516.htm
Note: These are the standard codes, more details on this later:
Mode 01 Data stream (sensor readings and switch status)
Mode 02 Freeze-frame data (if DTCs are present)
Mode 03 Diagnostic Trouble Codes
Mode 04 Clear codes and freeze-frame data
Mode 05 Oxygen sensor monitor
Mode 06 Non-continuous monitors (EVAP, catalyst, EGR, etc.)
Mode 07 Continuous monitors
Mode 08 Bidirectional communication (onboard tests)
Mode 09 Vehicle VIN, PCM calibration, etc.
8192 Baud:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum3/HTML/001965.html
Sample Code for Reflashing: (this is not what the MEFI uses)
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/serial_flash/
GM Website link to On-Board Monitoring....
http://service.gm.com/gmspo/mode6/index.html
http://service.gm.com/index_en-US.html
http://www.cbfunforyou.com/mefi.html
http://www.mefistuff.com/home.html
http://www.sandcandymotorsports.com/dyno.html
http://www.marineengine.com/discus/messages/12487/20943.shtml
http://www.exatorq.com/19.php
EFI Formulas and "ECM Code" for Fords:
http://westersgarage.eidnet.org/fordbox.htm
http://westersgarage.eidnet.org/technical_info.htm
http://patents.ic.gc.ca/cipo/cpd/en/patent/2258521/summary.html
Dyno Testing of EFI Systems
MEFI Tuning Vendors
(Specialize in calibration tuning the controllers for you)
http://www.azspeed-marine.com/inmaso.html
http://westers_garage.eidnet.org/GM.htm
http://www.pmefi.com/
ECM Technical Specialists with websites:
Craig Motes:
http://www.moates.net/
TunerPro (two versions)
http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/downloadApp.htm
ECMGuy:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/9938/diagnostics/do_diag.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/9938/tuning/do_tune.html
Injection System Research:
Considering Wide Band Sensor:
It was recommended to look at my exhaust with a Wide Band Sensor, here are some links on this.(now I've had this recommendation twice.) So below is some of the areas I am researching.
The JAW:
http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/103_107/products_id/357?gclid=CP6VltrEj5ECFQGfHgodrkEy_w
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/06/WidebandShootout/index.php
EFI Troubleshooting:
http://www.marinemechanic.com/site/page266.html
Fuel to Air Ration on EFILive:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=6328
EFI Formulas:
http://www.diy-efi.org/efi332/equations/algorith.htm
EFI Tuning Tips:
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/tunetip.html
Volumetric Efficiency:
http://tunertools.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10
Delphi Contact Info:
Department- Consumer for Commercial Products
877-463-3574 press 2, then 2, then 2 individually and slowly
then you get- Service and Training Operations
then they can transfer you to Technical Support, except they don't have any information on marine products.
Unsorted links:
http://www.rbbi.com/links/boatl.htm
http://wwwarchive.mercurymarine.com/dealer_and_support_programs
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103342
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx
http://www.johnbearsc.com/en/parts/crate.spy
more links:
http://media.gm.com/division/powertrain/news/book3-non-auto_1.pdf
http://home.earthlink.net/~jcgebhart/msindex.html
http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/holley-performance-products-inc-2055/fuel-injection-9345.html
http://www.who-sells-it.com/images/catalogs/2055/pdf_9345.pdf
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/009561.html
http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/FLOSCAN/flo3.htm
http://www.volvo.co.tz/Penta/Penta%20Product%20guide.htm
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/003678.html
http://www.zcarcreations.com/downloads/Accel_FI.pdf
http://tunertools.com/
http://www.screamandfly.com/home/evaluations/brucato_pcu_part_2/pcu_part_2_1.htm
http://www.msdignition.com/g2x/
http://216.230.203.183/marine/mtspec.htm
http://mercruiserparts.stemtostern.com/Mercruiser/Tools/tool6_2.pdf
http://www.lasalledesmoteurs.fr/(277-290)outils.pdf
http://www.neitcti.com/subpages/WhatsNew/abbra.htm
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=113653
http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10351
http://www.azspeed.com/inmaso.html
http://www.sterndrives.com/ddt01.html
http://autotelemetry.com/mefi/scan-and-tune.asp
http://autotelemetry.com/ALDL_Cables.asp
http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/chevy-marine-information.htm
http://www.allstatesmarinesurveyors.com/efi_performance_testing.htm
Wikipedia info:
http://allobd.com/whatisOBD.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_Control_Unit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1939
EFILive Forum MEFI3 Articles
EFILive & Mercury Marine MEFI 3 ECM
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=3164&highlight=MEFIMore Pro Charger tuning Progress and AFR RAtios
my bravo outdrive gear experiment
Ecm3
Ecm
7.4 MPI vs 454 Mag wiring harness
mefi tuning finally available to everyone-CHEAP
MPI #7 fuel rail defect???
8-71 Low Profile Supercharger/manifold/spark Arrestor
Ecm-99
E.C.M. malfuncion
FAST sytem or DFI, anyone build motors and tune with these?
502 MPI vs. HP 500 EFI Control Module
Rev Limiter/ MEFI 3 computer question
MEFI 3 and Auto Xray
502MPI alarm
Finally got my motor back together & DYNOED!!!
Need a mefi 3 computer
GMPP Ram Jet 502 vs Merc HP500/525 EFI
Ingenius Marine Software
MEFI Scan & Tune - MEFIburn
Coil circuit or injector circuit on a Mefi-3
Blown 502MPI Makes 1000 HP?
Arizona Speed & Marine Ingenious?????????
mefi4b vs mefi 3
What is the fastest 29 Outlaw you know of?
SpeedWake Forum MEFI3 articles
999 Ecn
Big Block Chevy Marine Performance by Dennis Moore?
Ecm-99
Shift interrupt on a Bravo engine MEFI-3
fuel pressure on a procharged 502?
ECM Reprogram
Crane Gold Rockers
Alarm=engine Cutting Out!!!
454 MPI, hp500EFI, computers same?
Base Timing Mode Woes - Falling Fuel Pressure
ECM reading with a PC ??? can it work ??
Motors are wasted
Hard start when hot
Knock sensor testing
Swap 502ci for 540ci ?
Look here:
http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63198&page=2
Mercruiser Bulletins:
http://www.marinepartsman.com/Mercury-Marine-service-bulletins/Mercury-Mariner/1999/
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_02.pdf
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_03.pdf
TunerPro site Forum:
http://tunerpro.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4568&sid=ad1e55b9e56a96a1db792913e6a288a3
Link to a MEFI3 repair manual:
www.pleasurecraft.com/manuals/L510004.pdf
(Updated 4/4/12 - updated with a new manual link.) |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| B112 |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 10:05:41
Hum coughs at 1600. I wouldn't think it's the CPU, but a sensor failing to give the CPU the right inputs. Basically the CPU is a set of formulas (remember your algebra days), the inputs are the sensors which are converted to numbers. After the formula is calculated the resulting numbers are used to time how much fuel and when you get it. If your inputs are off, you don't get fuel at the right times. So what you need to figure out is if your spark is failing at 1600 due to the distributor or if your fuel is starving or too much is getting injected. Also, if you have fuel problems, you may need new injectors (which I am told is expensive.)
Bob at MEFI Burn is a great reference. I have all his hardware/software. I wrote my own code also, but he knows the codes for the controllers. Some how he got the codes. He does not have all the codes, though. He also knows how to program these. I intend to experiment based on working with a dyno-shop. Very minor tweaks, and I'll be calling Bob. As long as you buy his equipment he'll support you. |
| sievert |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 08:39:28
I have a Shamrock with a Mercury engine with exactly the same controller as you have pictures of. The engine works fine up to 1600 rpm, then it coughs. We have changed the distributor and sparkplugs. Is this a controller problem you have heard about? Anybody that can test the controller or should I buy a new one? |
| got2boat |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 17:40:11
The diagram you show at the top of the post does not correspond to the "MEFI 3 5.0L EFI and 5.7L EFI Engines" diagram in service manual #24 that was here http://www.maxumownersclub.com/forum/site_files/manuals/mercruiser/24.pdf
It looks like a different harness whether it is Alpha or Bravo.
I can't determine where the wires in question: J1-3, J1-10 and J1-24 connect to the IC module. The distributor is tough to get at, but all I see going into the distributor is White/Gr, White/Red and Black.
According to the diagram, I'm not seeing those wire colors coming out of J1.
Note: I just tried to attach a copy of the page as a jpg file, but it said "this file can not be uploaded". It was about 350K. The diagram in question is page 4E-17 from the manual linked above.
OK, you could browse to this for a full page view:
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/dqsc5
Hopefully this image link works:
 |
| B112 |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 06:18:26
>> "If I don't get 3 hits it's broken"? I'd say yes, but I'd also check for shorts between them also.
From what I read, the engine should run (spark) without the computer. A fail safe where the engine just doesn't run well. Thus I'd recheck your distributor, coil and the Ignition control module which is in your distributor.
Take a look at this manual: (see page 4-11 for ohm meter tests)
http://www.pleasurecraft.com/manuals/L510004.pdf
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| got2boat |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 23:18:50
quote:
Originally posted by B112
3= I personally have not had a connector problem, but I did find two bad wires in my harness. One was the wire going to my distributor (engine stalled) and the other was a sender wire (temperature sender pinned the needle).
Were you able to repair the wire, or did you have to buy another harness?
Since we're not getting spark, I'm thinking it might be the same distributor wire.
To test this, I'd detach J1, I run a continuity test from Pin
3, 10 & 24 to the corresponding wires on the distributor. If I don't get 3 hits it's broken?
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| got2boat |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 22:30:03
Hi Michael,
That insight about the ECM and the spark really supports your original diagnosis. I'm brining in a different mechanic who does more work with fuel injected engines. His initial thoughts was also that the ECM rarely goes. I'm going to print this out for him too.
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again. |
| B112 |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 21:25:58
quote:
Originally posted by got2boat
1) do you have a link to a manual, or a video?
2) I'm assuming "no user serviceable parts inside" for the mefi3.
3) Is there ever an issue with cleaning the contacts, bent contacts?
To answer your questions directly:
1= I don't have an electronic link to a manual for your engine. A while back Mercury left their technical website open and someone published a link to all their manuals, I never found the time to download them which a friend recommended. His thought was that maybe one day I'd buy another Mercury. I will take a different approach to boating.
2= No the MEFI is hardened and you can't service it. I'd bet your ECM is fine, though we'll find out.
3= I personally have not had a connector problem, but I did find two bad wires in my harness. One was the wire going to my distributor (engine stalled) and the other was a sender wire (temperature sender pinned the needle).
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| B112 |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 21:06:14
Got2Boat, I was reading my Service Manual which is for the 502EFI. Chart 7 is the Ignition System Check. The complete test does not seem to ever point to the ECM being bad. From my short read of this test, I believe the computer reads the distributor voltages as a sensor input to the computer program. I don't believe you need the ECM to generate a spark or time the engine. I believe the only control the ECM has on the timing/spark is the ability to advance the distributor. Thus, I don't think your ECM is preventing a spark in your system. Now your ECM does control when your injectors inject gas, how long these are open. So if your ECM was bad, you would not be getting gas in your cylinders. It would not be a spark problem. The tests of your engine are detailed and in the manual. While I don't have your manual, you can order it from Mercury and you'll have your exact engine tests. Let me know what your mechanic says. I also know that they can call Mercury and Mercury will help with the diagnosis (only if they are a true Mercury dealer). I had a mechanic contact Mercury with me on the phone and we diagnosed my engine. My biggest problem was an intermittent loose connection on my distributor circuit. After that was solved, my engine was extremely reliable, except for a leak down problem which has since been solved. Hope this helps, let me know what you find. |
| got2boat |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 17:08:56
quote:
Originally posted by B112
Your problem can be in the distributor, the coil, the computer or in the wires.
The distributor and coil were replaced already because they were cheap, including a little sensor that was inside.
The mechanic says that the wires can't be replaced, that they can only be purchased as part of an upgrade with a Mefi4 kit. I think I'll try the multimeter on the wires myself, do you have a link to a manual, or a video? I'm hoping that the colors are consistent on the wires at least.
I'm assuming "no user serviceable parts inside" for the mefi3.
Is there ever an issue with cleaning the contacts, bent contacts?
Thanks for all the help.
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| B112 |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 22:04:24
My mechanic years ago diagnosed this as a bad computer. He was wrong. I had a bad wire going to my distributor which was intermittent. I setup my harness and tested every wire on a test bed. I'd suggest tracing back from the plugs to the computer any parts which can be bad and replace those first.
Look at the Red/Black, Tan/Black and White wires. They are probably these three(but I am not sure - I need to look at my harness or another manual):
J1-3 Ignition Control (Ref. Low)
J1-10 Ignition Control Signal
J1-24 Ignition Control Bypass
Those would have electronic drivers in that computer which would control the distributor. Don't put a meter on those what ever you do unless the repair manual tells you you can. You don't want to burn the driver circuit in the computer. Check those wires from the computer when it's disconnected all the way to your distributor for breaks and if it's not connected to the computer use a ohm meter to check for breaks.
Your problem can be in the distributor, the coil, the computer or in the wires. That's it. I'd bet against it being your computer and look at swapping out the cheaper parts and check the wires first. Good luck and let me know what you find.
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| got2boat |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 17:08:52
I'm not getting spark for ignition and my mechanic tells me he thinks it's the MEFI-3 ECM. It's a 1999 5.7 EFI for a bravo3.
Is there anything else to test? I found this a SB on a sensor failure here www.boatfix.com/merc/bullet/99/99_04.PDF
Any ideas on fix would be appreciated.
Still looking hard for a replacement.
We have only found new a mefi4 kit that is supposed to work, but is crazy expensive. |
| B112 |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 15:22:19
I'm going to suggest more testing of the ECM you have. I actually have two ECM's one I am going to reprogram (already matched my program) and the other is the orginal which I will not touch (it will be my constant or control). I eventually may disect one to see what the circuit boards are, but I probably will never get that time.
Before you gave up boating, you may just consider a carb. Though everyone tells me the reliability of the electronic ignition is much better and that's why I am staying with it. My engine dyno guy when we ran my engine generated more HP/Torque with a carb and was insisting for me to switch to a carb. |
| richardpoconnor |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 21:24:21
I need help. Here's the situation:
My Mercruiser ECM went south.
My Mercury ECM Part #861926T3 no longer available. My unit was built by Delphi Automotive Services, Kokomo, IN with part number 16236999 it has a bar code 833999KA00037571 (I think the first 8 digits are model, the last 8 are the serial number for this unit).
My ECM runs a Mercruiser 5.7 EFI (MEFI-3), 350 cubic inch, 310 hp, GM engine (Chevy 8 cylinder converted by Mercury for marine use). The boat is a 2000 Searay 26’ Sundancer, so the ECM dates back to 2000.
Problem:
Engine starts right up, runs perfectly for hours. After shutting down engine, it will start right up again, then immediately stall. It will continue to start right up then immediately stall until I give up. If I wait couple hours (I assume when the ECM cools off), it starts right up and runs perfectly. My good mechanic thought it might be faulty ignition coil, but that checked out OK. He then noticed when he ran diagnostics on the engine, there were no reported faults, but the engine hours reported by the ECM would add an hour of engine run time for every ten minutes of actual time. Mechanic called Mercury who said I had a bad ECM (stalling and goofy engine hours) and needed a new one for $2,660! The original ECM (861926T3) is no longer available (it use to cost $1,500), replaced by new unit with a conversion harness kit for older boats. Replacement unit Part #892798A01 with conversion kit from Mercury costs $2,660!
My first option is to find a competent, daring techy who will open up my unit and see if “cleaning” it (or whatever they do) will give it a couple more years of life. I know ECMs can be “re-built” and/or re-programmed, but none of the companies I called will work on a marine ECM (but it is a GM engine). I don’t know how to get info on re-programming it, but I’m hoping that it might be just a bad connection that could be soldered or cleaned.
My second option is to find a used one on EBay. I have looked but none being sold now. One was sold on Ebay couple years ago for $450! Does anybody have a Mercury Part #861926T3, also know as Delphi 1623699? Will a Delphi 16237009 which looks identical to mine (Mercruiser MEFI-3 for a 1999 Mercruiser GM 502 Vortec Gen VI Mercury engine), or similar ECMs, work on my engine?
My last option is to buy new ECM for $2,660 …. bummer, or just quit boating.
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| B112 |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 07:05:04
Charles, excellent! Thanks for contributing those links. |
| cbernhardt |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 05:50:11
Michael:
The pins I was looking for are in a 32 pin weather proof connector that has a plastic snap on cover. I finally found a part number printed on the plastic cover and an internet search turned up this Delphi data sheet for the connector.
http://connectors2.delphi.com/dcsgdmcs/del/attachments/Printed%20Catalog%20Selection/Micro100Wheader.pdf
From this information I got the part number for the pin I was looking for.
http://gb.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=12084913virtualkey63000000virtualkey829-12084913
Charles |
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